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	<title>Comments on: Google Maps: New Customer Complaint Arena</title>
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	<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/</link>
	<description>Developing Knowledge about Local Search</description>
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		<title>By: You Deserve a Rake Today at Ickdonalds &#171; Location Awhere</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-440076</link>
		<dc:creator>You Deserve a Rake Today at Ickdonalds &#171; Location Awhere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-440076</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting posts over at Blumenthals.com (currently one of my new favorite blogs along with Maperture) about Google’s decision to allow [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting posts over at Blumenthals.com (currently one of my new favorite blogs along with Maperture) about Google’s decision to allow [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MiriamEllis</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281724</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamEllis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281724</guid>
		<description>Oh-ho, perhaps even better than this, Monsanto&#039;s business listing sits beautifully unclaimed. Not that I&#039;d do anything....

Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh-ho, perhaps even better than this, Monsanto&#8217;s business listing sits beautifully unclaimed. Not that I&#8217;d do anything&#8230;.</p>
<p>Miriam</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281632</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281632</guid>
		<description>@Miriam

psst...psst...you didn&#039;t hear it from me but every McDonald&#039;s listing that I looked at sat unclaimed and &quot;prime&quot;d for a sweet, vegan community editor to beefup their listing. See this &lt;a href=&quot;http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;abauth=2ebce65c%3AYOd8f2f0m69F5l5hnfLrE8nPv2g&amp;view=text&amp;q=McDonald%27s&amp;btnG=Search+Maps&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;search&lt;/a&gt;. How about MickeyDeads or McCholesterol?

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Miriam</p>
<p>psst&#8230;psst&#8230;you didn&#8217;t hear it from me but every McDonald&#8217;s listing that I looked at sat unclaimed and &#8220;prime&#8221;d for a sweet, vegan community editor to beefup their listing. See this <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&#038;source=s_q&#038;abauth=2ebce65c%3AYOd8f2f0m69F5l5hnfLrE8nPv2g&#038;view=text&#038;q=McDonald%27s&#038;btnG=Search+Maps">search</a>. How about MickeyDeads or McCholesterol?</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MiriamEllis</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281573</link>
		<dc:creator>MiriamEllis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 06:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281573</guid>
		<description>vegans renaming McDonald’s to Burnt Flesh Heaven .....

Hmm, don&#039;t give me any ideas, Mike.
Miriam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vegans renaming McDonald’s to Burnt Flesh Heaven &#8230;..</p>
<p>Hmm, don&#8217;t give me any ideas, Mike.<br />
Miriam</p>
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		<title>By: ben allen</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281409</link>
		<dc:creator>ben allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281409</guid>
		<description>ah I gotcha.  Yeah I always assumed that everyone InfoUsa, Axciom, etc always used the government data as a starting point anyway (Tiger/Census) and then built from there by hiring a small army of phone reps to make phone calls constantly to verify and update those listings throughout the year. 

I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I believe that the folks like Navteq then buy the data from InfoUsa and Axciom and then try to further improve them by adding observations from their own street driving teams. Navteq then sells it to Google who then tries to improve it even further by layering in page scraping and Local Business Center data. 

Sure, we could have the government do all of this themselves using  taxpayer money... but frankly I am not sure the results would be any different. 

And while I am sure not very many people will agree with me here, but I see many of these listings as essentially advertising. So I am not sure I want to use my tax money to help businesses advertise themselves to me for free using my own money. Something seems wrong there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ah I gotcha.  Yeah I always assumed that everyone InfoUsa, Axciom, etc always used the government data as a starting point anyway (Tiger/Census) and then built from there by hiring a small army of phone reps to make phone calls constantly to verify and update those listings throughout the year. </p>
<p>I am by no means an expert on this subject, but I believe that the folks like Navteq then buy the data from InfoUsa and Axciom and then try to further improve them by adding observations from their own street driving teams. Navteq then sells it to Google who then tries to improve it even further by layering in page scraping and Local Business Center data. </p>
<p>Sure, we could have the government do all of this themselves using  taxpayer money&#8230; but frankly I am not sure the results would be any different. </p>
<p>And while I am sure not very many people will agree with me here, but I see many of these listings as essentially advertising. So I am not sure I want to use my tax money to help businesses advertise themselves to me for free using my own money. Something seems wrong there.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281374</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281374</guid>
		<description>@Ben

I am suggesting that the governments list of businesses is probably the best reflection of going concerns, they also know when someone closes their doors often more quickly than Google does. 

I am only speaking in a theoretical sense that the market doesn&#039;t always have the best solution. 

For example the government could maintain a list, allowed measured changes to it and then like with ICANN allow users to update for a small fee. The argument that the market is the best solution is a religious based idea not a factual one. It works sometimes and not others. 

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ben</p>
<p>I am suggesting that the governments list of businesses is probably the best reflection of going concerns, they also know when someone closes their doors often more quickly than Google does. </p>
<p>I am only speaking in a theoretical sense that the market doesn&#8217;t always have the best solution. </p>
<p>For example the government could maintain a list, allowed measured changes to it and then like with ICANN allow users to update for a small fee. The argument that the market is the best solution is a religious based idea not a factual one. It works sometimes and not others. </p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: ben allen</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281370</link>
		<dc:creator>ben allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 16:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281370</guid>
		<description>Hey Mike, what is the best list of active businesses that you&#039;re referring to that the government has? I am not familiar.  If that&#039;s true then it should be available to anyone in theory since its likely it was gathered with taxpayer money.  From what I can tell Google seems to think that any one information source is not good enough  which is why they use a three pronged approach of buying listings, and supplementing that with page scraping and the Local Business Center.  While it obviously isn&#039;t perfect from the discussion here, from what I&#039;ve seen the thoroughness seems to blow away anything else I&#039;ve seen from competitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mike, what is the best list of active businesses that you&#8217;re referring to that the government has? I am not familiar.  If that&#8217;s true then it should be available to anyone in theory since its likely it was gathered with taxpayer money.  From what I can tell Google seems to think that any one information source is not good enough  which is why they use a three pronged approach of buying listings, and supplementing that with page scraping and the Local Business Center.  While it obviously isn&#8217;t perfect from the discussion here, from what I&#8217;ve seen the thoroughness seems to blow away anything else I&#8217;ve seen from competitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281356</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281356</guid>
		<description>@Ben you have already pointed out that Google has little incentive to fix the problem, we can see that getting 15 million businesses to do anything is problematic. 

We have already, as taxpayers, paid for the internet once, and continually pay to have our income and payroll taxes collected by the Government. They actually have the best list of active businesses and could provide that information in a sensible way for Google and everybody elses uses. Free market don&#039;t really exist and when we try them (banking anyone?) they have a tendency to implode.

@David

Removing your listing, given how Google works, is unlikely to  solve your problem. Google gathers primary business listings from companies that gather it from the phone books, the counties etc and then matches that up to information it finds on the web. As soon as they re-add a new list from one of their data suppliers your listing is likely to show back up. When it does it create a new cluster and reattach the old info from that directory.

You are stuck I am afraid with what Google has to offer.

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ben you have already pointed out that Google has little incentive to fix the problem, we can see that getting 15 million businesses to do anything is problematic. </p>
<p>We have already, as taxpayers, paid for the internet once, and continually pay to have our income and payroll taxes collected by the Government. They actually have the best list of active businesses and could provide that information in a sensible way for Google and everybody elses uses. Free market don&#8217;t really exist and when we try them (banking anyone?) they have a tendency to implode.</p>
<p>@David</p>
<p>Removing your listing, given how Google works, is unlikely to  solve your problem. Google gathers primary business listings from companies that gather it from the phone books, the counties etc and then matches that up to information it finds on the web. As soon as they re-add a new list from one of their data suppliers your listing is likely to show back up. When it does it create a new cluster and reattach the old info from that directory.</p>
<p>You are stuck I am afraid with what Google has to offer.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: David Goodman</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-281353</link>
		<dc:creator>David Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-281353</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know all the technical terminology or how any of it works.  I&#039;m computer savvy for my purposes, which are multimedia (music and graphics) and we use the web for communication and promotion of our counseling agency and my musical career.  But here&#039;s one thing I do know.  Google&#039;s system of &quot;scraping&quot; the internet business listings opens us all to the serious errors that happened to us.  Because anyone with malintent or, as in this case a well-intended but careless non-compliance to our company standards and ethics, can list themselves as being affilliated with any business, and Google&#039;s engines will attach it, and there is no way to fix it.  If the webmaster at Qigong Institute had not been willing to act on our behalf, and had Mike not been kind enough to pinpoint the source of the trouble, we would be forced to remove ourselves entirely from the Maps listing (and we still may have to).  Furthermore, we are still left with whatever residual damage has been done to our image, with no legal recourse.  Google should take some form of responsibility in this, if it wishes to maintain a positive client base.  At this point, there seems to be a high number of disgruntled clients.  Is this truly the way to operate a business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know all the technical terminology or how any of it works.  I&#8217;m computer savvy for my purposes, which are multimedia (music and graphics) and we use the web for communication and promotion of our counseling agency and my musical career.  But here&#8217;s one thing I do know.  Google&#8217;s system of &#8220;scraping&#8221; the internet business listings opens us all to the serious errors that happened to us.  Because anyone with malintent or, as in this case a well-intended but careless non-compliance to our company standards and ethics, can list themselves as being affilliated with any business, and Google&#8217;s engines will attach it, and there is no way to fix it.  If the webmaster at Qigong Institute had not been willing to act on our behalf, and had Mike not been kind enough to pinpoint the source of the trouble, we would be forced to remove ourselves entirely from the Maps listing (and we still may have to).  Furthermore, we are still left with whatever residual damage has been done to our image, with no legal recourse.  Google should take some form of responsibility in this, if it wishes to maintain a positive client base.  At this point, there seems to be a high number of disgruntled clients.  Is this truly the way to operate a business?</p>
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		<title>By: panzermike</title>
		<link>http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/04/google-maps-new-customer-complaint-arena/comment-page-1/#comment-280929</link>
		<dc:creator>panzermike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blumenthals.com/blog/?p=1421#comment-280929</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ben Allen.  It has become out of control with no end in sight.  All it did is create jobs for a bunch of engineers at Google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ben Allen.  It has become out of control with no end in sight.  All it did is create jobs for a bunch of engineers at Google.</p>
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